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Shutting down the haters

Today, I bring you an “it came from the PUG” story with a happy ending.

Our setting:  The Nexus.  I was there on my enhancement fail!shaman Sakula, who is geared…modestly, let’s just put it that way.  Can’t recall offhand if he’s got any greens left, but he’s just gotten his second piece of base T9 and is otherwise mostly rocking item level 187/200 blues and the occasional 200 epic.

We all zoned in, and as always, I scanned my party frame to pick out the tank.  It’s a reflex that comes from having two hunters–on them, the very first thing I always do is target the tank and make him/her/it my focus target so my Misdirect macro works properly.  I saw that our tank was a female blood elf paladin…and she had 22,600 health.

I moused over her, and my tooltip told me she was prot spec.  I looked, figuring she had her ret gear on…nope, that’s a shield and a one-handed mace.  Hmm, this is cool.  Maybe we can get her some upgrades!  I mean, sheesh, it’s Nexus, right?  We’re not exactly talking heroic Halls of Reflection here.  So I dropped target on her and went back to making sure my totems were set the way I wanted them.

Next thing I see is the party healer, a tree druid, say:  “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.”

Ah, it never fails.  A tank with less than 40k unbuffed health walks into a heroic, and people start crapping themselves.  Before the first pull, before the tank had a chance to prove themselves, the tree took one look at the tank’s gear and immediately thought “fail.”

To her credit, the paladin stood her ground and said, “Is there a problem?” or something similar.  Oh yeah, you go pallytank.  The druid didn’t say anything.  The paladin, honor apparently satisfied, turned around and headed off to pull the first drake.

And so, off we went toward the Halls of Stasis.  The only other comment the druid made the entire time was, a couple pulls in, another snide comment to the tank:  “Could you at least buff yourself so I have something to heal?”  Oh, this guy’s a real douchetree.  One Blessing of Kings later, she was up to about 24.5k health, and on we continued.

We took the usual route through Nexus, and other than the undergeared-worse-than-me mage dying twice on Grand Magus Telestra trash, it was a solid, unexceptional heroic Nexus run.  The paladin tank did a solid job holding agro and other than one somewhat cocked-up trash pull where agro went wonky (causing us to scramble like hell, me to bring out the spirit doggies early, etc.), everything hummed along in the fine boring manner you’d expect.

20 minutes later, we stood in front of Keristrasza’s corpse.  And I couldn’t resist, after seeing the “undergeared” paladin tank shut up Mr. “you’ve got to be fucking kidding me” Treebag with a great tank job.  I turned to the paladin and said “Great tanking, Renai, thank you.”  Other than a “thank you” from Renai, want to know what the two replies I got were?

Rogue:  “lol easy with tricks”

Druid:  “pfft great heals more like” *drop group*

Sadly, I didn’t get a chance to ignore the druid, or to personally compliment the tank before she dropped group.  So I’ll say it here instead, and hope there’s a 1-in-1000 chance it gets back to him/her/it:  Renai of Suramar, I salute you for a job well done.  And, most importantly, I salute you for standing your ground in the face of Non-Overgeared Tank Hate, and for shutting down the haters.

18 responses

  1. My second alt is a Combat (Hack and Slash) Rogue. He’s decently geared through heroics and badges: Geared enough that I can occasionally top the meters in any Heroic 5-man outside ICC. Geared well enough that even with Tricks of the Trade on every cool-down, I can still pull aggro off a 35K-health prot pally (a sin for which I generally pay a 10% repair bill). So not, it’s not “lol easy with tricks.”

    By the way, are you in the Vengeance battlegroup? My Rogue may have run H-FoS with that Druid on Saturday. >.<

    March 8, 2010 at 13:13

  2. I’m glad the Pally was able to shut the Druid up by doing a good job. I wish those douche-nozzles should keep their traps shut and keep the elitism to a minimum.

    March 8, 2010 at 13:22

  3. FYI: You can do a /ignore Name-Realm on someone who’s dropped group, or you can right-click their name in the chat window to do the same.

    I find a lot of healers being dicks here lately, and they’re actually the ones yelling “gogogo!!” in chat too. This new generation of healers coming up are really starting to piss me off.

    March 8, 2010 at 15:35

    • Not that I would want to defend healers at all costs, I think if anything I’m seeing more tanks being douches than healers. Mostly, the tanks disappear if the instance the dungeon finder chose is not to their liking (Stratholme being the most common occurrence of this, after the repeated loot buffs and mob nerfs of Oculus), but I’ve also seen tanks who just pull with no regard of where the healer is or what his mana is like, initiate vote kicks against undergeared healers or dps, pull whole rooms before leaving group just because…

      The heart of the matter is that, sadly, the Dungeon Finder has encouraged a lot of this behaviour, where people feel safe with the fact that the chances of running into the same people are slim. /ignore is, indeed, your friend, as Psynister suggests….

      March 9, 2010 at 09:47

  4. While I generally agree, I’ve also done this once.
    To my defense it was PoS and I was healing on my badly equipped druid.

    And I would’ve never said anything normally, but this Pally tank
    – did not buff anyone but himself
    – had zero enchants and was even lacking some gems
    – pulled without getting me mana in the start.

    So yes, on the second pull I also gave him a speech.
    But he was a bit slow with reading I think so he kept on pulling after about my second line and thus died.
    After some shouting AND probably finally reading it there were buffs, slower pulling and yes, we managed to clear the place.

    March 8, 2010 at 15:58

  5. Skill > Gear.

    This gets proven over and over again, but the kiddie healers (who probably rolled healer in the first place so someone would let them into a guild) never seem to get it. My mage, who hit 80 last Sunday, cleared ICC25 through Sindragosa w/o a death on Friday while maintaining competitive DPS. If you know what you are doing, this game is pretty easy. Good tanking shows that off more than most things. Luckily, Renai of Suramar will not be undergeared very long since badges drop pretty damned fast.

    Good post, we need more of these floating around the warcraft blogosphere.

    March 8, 2010 at 16:06

  6. What is it with trees? Every single jackass healer I’ve run into so far in a heroic has been one. Healer who facepulled entire rooms for me: tree. Healer who did nothing but make snide comments about the DPS and run ahead of me: tree. Healer who left me to go to 50% because he was jumping around spamming Moonfire: tree.

    Some of my best friends are trees, but it’s been a bizarre trend for me.

    March 8, 2010 at 17:48

    • Trees are the “easiest” healer for not having mana issues. The majority of trees that I run without in 5-mans never drop below 92% mana unless I (un)intentionally over-pull to force them to. But even then they don’t often drop below 70%.

      I ask the healer now every time I run a random how much mana he wants me to keep in his stores before pulling the next group, and how large a pull he prefers to heal, and then I stick to that unless the healer changes his mind.

      Priests tell me to make sure they have 40-60% mana before I pull, Pallies I’m just not seeing any more so I don’t even know, Shaman’s are usually “just keep going unless I tell you to stop”, and Druids just say “lol, I never need mana, just keep on pulling”.

      March 9, 2010 at 10:49

  7. Lazaros of Llane

    A big part of half of the Druid specs (Resto and Bear) is mobility. (Balance needs to stand still more to cast and it behooves Cats to hold still to keep the buff/debuff chaos together.) We’re far too used to being on the go, and with lack of mana issues for most healers, you’ll see this even more with Trees.

    Please note that I don’t condone anyone but the tank pulling, with extreme exceptions. (Most of them being a DPS that’s on Vent with me.)

    I’ve been healing a lot more lately on my Shaman, and I find the lower-geared tanks, if they have a modicum of skill, are tons of fun to heal. I get bored watching Earth Shield do all my work while I sling Lightning Bolts. (On the other hand, I usually have suicidal Warlocks and Ret Paladin in the group keeping me semi-busy.) Plus, it just feels good helping people get gear on a fresh 80, as long as they aren’t jerks about it.

    March 8, 2010 at 18:56

  8. Sanderth

    It’s a good thing to hear about somebody not giving up when people are rude like that. I certainly hope that person does keep going and keeps trying in spite of what was said to her; given she was willing to stand up to them then and there, I think that is a good start. It’s good to see people when they do try to be supportive of the new 80.

    March 8, 2010 at 22:57

  9. Kel

    I had a similar run on my troll hunter Rajji, on Durotan. Pally tank with 20k-something hp, must have just dinged 80 within the last day or so. Except we had a shammy healer and everyone was quite nice (mostly silent, actually). Gundrak really loved that pally, almost every drop was plate, at least 2 were tanking upgrades. There was some aggro issues, but hey, that’s what FD is for. The rogue died a couple times, but never got mean or snarky about it. I did make sure to say “nice run” afterwards. And for once, I actually meant it.

    And I’ve also noticed, most of the biggest jerk healers have been tree druids. Having 2 druids with healing offspecs, this bothers me. 😦

    March 9, 2010 at 03:33

  10. Tam

    God, people are such wankers. Also don’t healers realise that they more they bash the tank for their hp, the more they look like morons who can’t heal. If I couldn’t get an appropriately geared tank with 24k hp through a heroic I’d die of shame, I certainly wouldn’t whinge about the tank.

    March 10, 2010 at 06:27

  11. Baelunmal/Firehorn

    <– Feathermoon all the way here and I just have to say that my new tankadin (Baelunmal) dealt with the haters for the past 2 days while I was chain running heroics.

    But now that he has 32k health selfbuffed I no longer have to deal with the nonsense 😦

    When he first hit 80 monday night I was like woot time to go tank heroics.

    I zone into Culling and bam. Healer goes What the f%&k are you doing in here?
    Bear in mind that I had all of the Titansteel BoE stuff and a seal of the pantheon as well as some normal ToC stuff thanks to guildies.
    He drops and so drops 2 of the dps.

    I get a new healer who is in the same boat as me with less than 20k mana and around 12k health.

    The 5 of us in our "poor" gear cleared the entire instance in less than 30 minutes and I got the Royal Crest to boot. 😀

    March 11, 2010 at 01:51

  12. Lucrecio/VeCo

    I just wish you had an option to PUG with undergeared poeple. I love tanking, I started playing because I wanted to tank. And yet, I just look at my LFD button and think “Why?”.

    Yes, I like doing a quick Heroic every now and then. Yes, I do PUG raids (and I even manage sometimes to ba amazed, like a VoA25 yesterday where the 16th DPSer was causing 4,4kdps, with the first 5 doing over 7k – and noone died). But everytime I use the LFD there´s at least one d-bag.

    So what if the Tank has 20k health. So what if the Healear actually has to heal.

    “People” like to say “I want my quick badges”, when, in fact, they mean “I want my easy badges that I don´t actually have to work for”. Quick badges is creating a 10 man group and clearing naxx and Sarth+3 in an hour. But I´m quite sure that the DPSers and Healers I pugged that kept saying GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO and “lolwut, (insert snide comment here)” don´t have the “mad skillz” or are “undergeared” for that.

    (Sorry for the rant reply)

    March 11, 2010 at 09:09

  13. Nymphe

    I am actually kinda happy to occasionally see a low health tank when I’m pugging on my priest. Even a noobie learning tank its nice to actually HAVE to heal something. When I run with my best tank guildie I end up pulling about 3k dps as disc on bosses healing him with shields and PoM, its refreshing to have to actually think about what your doing to keep someone alive.

    March 11, 2010 at 10:20

  14. Linedan,

    It’s kind of funny you mention ‘undergeared’ tanks and healers giving them a rash of crap for it. I ran on my DK tank the other night a HPoS (that’s Pit of Saron and not Piece of… well, you know), where we had to bring in a PuG random healer. The other three DPS were members of my regular ICC10 group (granted, we’re still on Plagueworks, but we’ve got 1st wing down to farm, practically).

    Since reading your articles on Prot Warrioring (and I’m still trying to work on my little panzercow), I went and started using Outfitter a bit more strenuously, similar to your advice of having multiple gear configurations for your tank. So, now I’m running a Trash set (DPS rings and trinkets – 35K HP, DEF 541 and hitcapped), a Boss set (1 DPS ring, 1 Tank ring, 1 Expertise Trinket, and the Black Heart – 37K HP, DEF 550 and hitcapped), and a Max Survival set (39K HP, 2 Tank rings, 2 Tank Trinkets, and 2 Tank weapons – Def 570-ish with 7.7% hit).

    So, of course, when I run Heroics, I run in my trash set. Goes faster, and I have better aggro control.

    But we get, yes, a tree healer, who, less than 5 seconds into zoning in, drops group without a word.

    I guess he wanted a tank with 40K+ HP for a Heroic. I mean, gee, this isn’t even HHoR, where the requirements might be a little higher.

    Yeah, the expectations have gone up. People want to cruise in Heroics and just get their badges and sparklies so they can tackle what’s more important – ICC. I guess. I figure time is time, and you might as well try to be pleasant and enjoy as much of the game as possible. Heroics are labs for me and my playstyle, and I use it fully to either find out what I can do, or field test new equipment/priority lists/specs.

    I just wish more people would look at what’s necessary, rather than what’s necessary to cruise. Nothing worse as a healer than an instance where you don’t really need to heal much – that’s boring. If I wanted to DPS, I’d come in on a different character or spec.

    On the other hand, the bright side to that random druid dropping was that our replacement was yet another druid, who hadn’t done HPoS on his druid before, and picked it up swimmingly, got some loot, the achievements, was courteous and up front about his experience in HPoS, and generally seemed glad to have been part of the group.

    Now, if only there were cross-server friends lists.

    My 2 yen to Harmoni (80 Resto Druid, some server – Emberstorm Battlegroup, US) – I hope we get to group with you again.


    March 11, 2010 at 17:05

    • Now, if only there were cross-server friends lists.

      This. This is a great idea. A friend and I ran some heroics last night, and the Healer and Lock were absolutely great. As I told my buddy afterward about the Healer, it’s too bad she’s on another server.

      April 2, 2010 at 15:51

  15. Pingback: Another Dungeon Finder story « The Mediocre Priest

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